URL:iDEOGRAFX

VRMLaboR:Could you introduce yourself a little bit to our readers ?

J.D.:I was originally a graphic designer in the mid 80's when I realized that computers were going to change the print graphics business. I knew nothing about computers and bought an used Amiga 1000(I should have bought a Mac) and taught myself how to use it.

I then decided to attend the School of Visual Arts in New York in 1990 because it was one of the few universities that offered a Masters degree in Computer Art. While studying there I decided that I was much better at 3D graphics than 2D graphic design. I have been working with 3D graphics ever since.

VRMLaboR: Had you attended another school before you were a graphic designer ? If so, what kind of ?

J.D.:I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Graphic Design from Louisiana Tech University in 1987.

There was no computers used for graphics at LA Tech at the time outside of some CAD in the engineering department. In fact, there was very little computer graphics in the southern US at the time. That's why I came to New York to study.

VRMLaboR: What are your creating with VRML now?

J.D.:Currently I'm somewhat disillussioned with VRML and stopped working with it. I was and am very interested in 3D multi-user worlds but there is no satisfactory solution currently available using VRML.

Dependent technologies such as VRML browser plugins and web browsers are changing too rapidly. Content that worked on one version suddenly breaks each time a new browser version appears. It is too tiring to keep updating the same content every month.

VRMLaboR:Could you tell me what you are going to create with VRML from now on?

J.D.:Only simple, non-java, non-eai, worlds that are not dependent on specific versions of plugins or web browsers.

VRMLaboR:VRML's format is still debated. Have you got any idea or ideal about VRML should have more function or be more like that?

J.D.:A keyboard node must be added. How can you create games when you are limited to one input device, ie a mouse.

VRML as it now stands is still rather limited and boring. But, VRML is important because it is a process and not simply a new bit of technology. I think many lessons will be learned through the devlopment and reaction to VRML since it is the first technology to widely expose 3D VR to the general public. It is laying a foundation for some better future tech.

VRMLaboR: How do you think internet and VRML are effecting into media and art. And also how do you anticipate that they would be changed by VRML in the future?

J.D.:VRML as an art form works best when the artist is trying to confront the viewer with some idea about perception.

3D VR forces you to confront how you percieve reality. A user cannot currently relax and "suspension of disbelief" as when viewing a motion picture or television. The user must work to mentally grasp what is happening in the virtual world in order to interact with it. Most people are not comfortable with that. Most the subtle cues(sense of balance, periphial vision, etc) of the real world are missing.

Hopefully widespread availability of 3D VR worlds, such as VRML, will spur the design of a interface that both Grandmother and Granddaughter feel comfortable. I think it could lead to better interface design and expand our knowledge of how people percieve reality. Most people aren't comfortable interfacing with VR worlds.

VRMLaboR:It's only I cannot understand the English term. What's "suspension of disbelief" ?

J.D.: "Suspension of disbelief" was a term created by one of the early famous movie directors. Maybe it was Cecil B. DeMill, but I'm not sure.

****It means temporarily beleiving what you know is not real.****

You allow your mind to accept that Luke Skywalker really is fighting Darth Vader instead thinking that I'm just sitting in a theater watching a fictional movie projected onto a screen.

It's the emotional involvement that is difficult to acheive with VR. People are too busy trying to figure out how to control the enviroment.

That's why I designed ChickTacToe so there is no navigating. I wanted a simple space that really featured the chicken. I think this allows people to accept the chicken as a character and not just a 3D object.

VRMLaboR: Do you think what kind of VRML Art would be the main current from now on?

J.D.:Certain kins of art and scientific visualization are the only things VRML is currently well suited to do. But then artists are usually the first to exploit any new medium.

The problem with VRML (or any computer art) as a artistic medium for the masses is that it is too dependent on technology flow. It's like a painter who's must wait for a better brush to appear on the market or he must make make his own paints, brushes, and canvases.

VRML makes it one step worse in that the viewer must also have the right "eyeglasses" (computer set-up) in order to view the "painting".

VRMLaboR: I also think the spec of VRML is a totally artificial creation. The expression of works using VRML should be limited to this spec. There would be a pay-off between development of hardware / software by oneself and using defact standards . What do you think about this ?

J.D.:VRML is great because it's open and extensible. You can create something that really pushes the limit by hand building code. However you must be technically knowleable and then few people will probably see it anyway.

That's the problem Cicada Interactive ran into with "The Terrible Samaritan". It was a beautiful piece! They wrote their own database scheme for persistence of objects and really pushed the tech. However the only time I ever saw it run successfully was on a computer that they had set up. Every variable(web browser, vrml plug-in, java, operating systems, etc) had to be set up correctly. No margin for error.

Currently, if you want an average user on the web to view it, you have to limit yourself to VRML spec and maybe javascript (or ECMAscript or whatever it's called now).

I created "Toilet World" about 1 1/2 years ago. It's still popular because it works on nearly every configuration, not because it's a great piece. It contains no java, javascript, or even protos. But many more people successfully view it than ChickTacToe. So which has more value, a piece that everyone can view or a piece that only some people can view?

For me, currently, it is creating a piece that everyone can view.

VRMLaboR: I tried "The Cave of Madness" before, but I could not find the second world. There are 10 worlds aren't they ? And what these are like ?

J.D.:Actually only 3 worlds were completed. Ligos Technology payed us to create VRML content for their web site since they sell V-Realm Builder.
Ligos has removed "Cave of Madness" now because they decided to go after a business oriented market instead of a entertainment market.

The second world was the interior of the cave. There was a "secret" object in the cave that if clicked on brought you to a special web page. Ligos gave the first person to find the secret object a free copy V-Realm Builder, everyone else who found it got a special discount. It was found after only 3 days of the release of Cave of Madness.

The third world was basically a 20 second cut scene movie. You went there if you chose not to enter the cave in the first world. It showed the main character's father taking him home in shame.

Cave was a fun peice but it was a victim of browser updates. Code broke and Ligos wasn't interested in paying us to fix it.

VRMLaboR:I had been thinking to make "Tic Tack Toe" with VRML, so I found of your work , I felt vexed a little bit ....

J.D.:Actually I wasn't the first either. When I thought of the idea, I also did a search. I found a guy in Korea who had made a very simple (and buggy) version of tictactoe. There was a 3x3 sectioned box and you clicked in the box and a red or blue ball appeared. I thought I could make it more interesting.

It's important that you also mention Nikita Mikros and John Mikros. They co-developed ChickTacToe and did the actual java programing. I developed the concept and did all the VRML but they made it actually work as I envisioned it.

They have a website at Flying Mikros Intercactive . They are game designers and programmers. They are currently developing a PC/Mac game(not vrml) and I am doing the 3D graphics for it. They also have a great Mac shareware game called "Alien Attack" which is a modernized version of "Space Wars".

We've had lots of problems with ChickTacToe breaking when new VRML plug-ins or web browsers are released. There are just too many possible combinations to try to make it work for everybody so we stopped trying to update it. But when/if CosmoPlayer for Mac is released we'll defintely try to make it work for Mac. We're still big Mac fans.

interviewed : fall 1997